# Building high-performing & global finance teams with Fivetran's Katie Slattery Brex’s CAO Erik Zhou welcomes Katie Slattery, VP of Accounting and Corporate Controller at Fivetran to discuss high-performing teams & global operations. **URL Source:** https://www.brex.com/resources/controllers-classified/episode-09 --- Episode 09 Building high-performing & global finance teams with Fivetran's Katie Slattery ### Spotify ![spotify](https://brand.brex.com/transform/556c1ade-18d0-479e-9ebc-c18d2e847315/spotify) ### Apple ![apple](https://brand.brex.com/transform/09f8bfeb-a8bf-4474-b6af-6e94e0082b59/apple) Episode summary In this episode of Controllers Classified, host Erik Zhou is joined by Katie Slattery, VP of Accounting and Corporate Controller at Fivetran. The conversation begins with Katie’s start in Ireland at KPMG Dublin as an auditor, and traces her path from auditor to accountant. Fun fact: Katie has been the first controller/accounting hire at several high growth companies! The conversation then pivots to Katie’s current priorities at Fivetran and how she translates company-wide KPIs into team specific goals around reliable data and control efficiencies. Katie also spends some time talking about how to build a high-performing team, how to make sure an accounting team is structured to deliver on the needs of the business, and how to foster effective communication with teams and leaders outside of accounting. Given Katie’s extensive background in high growth companies, the conversation pivots to the IPO landscape, and how teams should be thinking about IPO readiness amidst the uncertainty. Katie notes that you have to be able to balance day-to-day activities with activities that prepare for the future, because you don’t want accounting to be the blocker when a company is ready to go public. Finally, the conversation ends with a discussion on the challenges and opportunities that come with being a global company. Katie spends time on Fivetran’s global operations and some of the decisions they have had to make as an accounting team as they navigate a complex tax landscape. Show notes - Katie’s journey to Fivetran [00:55] - Setting a high-performance standard at Fivetran [17:20] - Forecasting the IPO landscape [20:30] - Managing global accounting operations [32:22] - Shopping mall audits [42:23] Guest bio ### Headshot ![Kattie Slattery](https://brand.brex.com/transform/dbda3de8-9cd2-42b3-9664-5fac4f2226d1/Kattie-Slattery) ### Bio Katie Slattery, VP, Accounting & Corporate Controller, Fivetran Katie Slattery is the VP, Accounting & Corporate Controller at Fivetran. She got her start in Ireland at KPMG, working across their audit, management consulting, and venture capital practices. She was the first controller/accounting hire at several high growth tech companies prior to joining Fivetran and has extensive experience building teams, functions, and processes from the ground up. She also founded Hyre, which helps build accounting and finance functions for emerging growth companies. Katie has her Bachelors of Commerce and Masters of Accounting from University College Dublin. “It is a true global company. And that presents challenges for our accounting org. How do we support teams across countries?” ### Transcript [00:00:00] **Katie:** [00:00:14] **Erik:** Welcome to Controllers Classified. I'm Eric Zhou, the Chief Accounting Officer at Brex, and I'm happy to welcome Katie Slattery, the VP of Accounting and Corporate Controller of Fivetran. Katie, welcome to the show. [00:00:26] **Katie:** Hi, Eric. Thank you so much for inviting me on to speak with you today. I can actually say I'm a long time listener, but first time caller. I think I've listened to nearly all of your episodes to date, so I really appreciate being included in the strong mix of guests you've had on. [00:00:41] **Erik:** I'm really flattered that you've listened to them all. Thank you. [00:00:44] **Katie:** Oh yeah. Big time on the podcast for sure. [00:00:47] **Erik:** Maybe just to start off, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what 5Trend does? [00:00:52] **Katie:** as you said, VP of accounting and corporate controller. I oversee about a team of 30 here, at Fivetran. but Fivetran is, a data startup, right? and let's, let's just keep it in simple speak. for our listeners out there who may not be developers, we essentially,develop connectors, or APIs, let's just say, for our customers to move their data from source A to location B. [00:01:14] **Katie:** So maybe this is a SaaS product or a database, and going into a warehouse. So we actually provide and develop hundreds of connectors, Let's just say from SAP to Oracle or from Snowflakes to another, SaaS product or, or database. and what's attractive about us is that we save our customers really a material amount of resources in terms of time and energy, and obviously cost in building their own connectors. [00:01:37] **Katie:** So it's, it's a plug and play data connector platform. [00:01:41] **Erik:** That's so awesome because everyone uses different SaaS products, but ultimately everyone wants to be able to connect all the data across all their different platforms and use cases in different departments, et cetera, all in one place. So that's essentially maybe a finance team or some other strategic group wants to do some analysis. [00:01:59] **Katie:** Yeah. Yeah. So it was interesting when I, when I found out about Fivetran and I had my eye on them, my, my friend was working at a startup and they were building their own platform, their own product, and they were really dedicating a lot of their time outside of the core product and on platform to, to build these APIs, specifically into NetSuite. [00:02:16] **Katie:** And, you know, I heard about this and I said, Hey, does this tool go Fivetran? Why don't you give it a go? So, I think they ended up using it in the end and really there was a thank you for, for saving us so much time and energy. So, yeah, what's a. Great company, you could call it a hyper growth company, you know, in the thousands of customers at this point, and never a dull day. [00:02:34] **Katie:** So it's, it's been good. [00:02:37] **Erik:** Tell me about your career path. How did, how does Katie Slattery become an accountant at 5Trend? [00:02:43] **Katie:** my career path started back in Ireland. As you can probably tell by my accent. after majoring in accounting for my undergrad and completing a summer internship at KPMG in Dublin, I was fortunate enough to receive sponsorship from KPMG to complete a Masters of Accounting. [00:02:58] **Katie:** after completing my Masters, then I joined KPMG Dublin as a graduate. and then that really marked my official entry into the world and wonderful world of public accounting. so at KPMG, I was an auditor within what they're called a CHEC practice. So they're CHEC practice, CHEC standing for construction, healthcare, energy and communications. [00:03:17] **Katie:** And, but actually my client industries went way beyond just those four pillars.so I got exposed to a lot, it was really great exposure for me just, just starting out as a, as a young junior accountant. So, as you and folks listening probably know, Ireland is a pretty interesting little island as it relates to foreign direct investment, from large multinational entities, particularly the US. [00:03:37] **Katie:** So, you know, being the closest English speaking European country to the US and offering, What's thought of as like a highly skilled workforce and of course an attractive corporation tax. There's, there's a huge amount of tech, in, in the small little island of Ireland. So really there at KPMG,I was exposed to, to tech, both private and public companies, from that point. [00:03:56] **Katie:** So that's really what started my way interested in, in the tech world. I was really fortunate actually to, to travel a lot with KPMG. during my early years, I worked all across Ireland, the UK, and South Africa, and eventually ended up in LA and Los Angeles working on, a pretty large multi billion dollar acquisition with, with KPMG's management consulting group. [00:04:16] **Katie:** so I always had an interest in working in the U. S. I was very grateful for the opportunity. and you know, everything went really well. And eventually I decided to relocate over here permanently. I decided against LA because I, I had that inherent, interest in, in tech. So what I did was I established myself up in, up in Silicon Valley and I joined KPNG's venture capital and emerging growth practice. [00:04:39] **Katie:** Really from the get go there, I was catapulted into the world of hyper growth unicorns and IPOs and startups and, you know, recently public companies, my clients there included some big names, so Stripe were one of my clients and, you know, as we all know, they were, you know, Founded by the Colson brothers from, from Ireland. [00:04:57] **Katie:** So I had a particular interest in, in working on that client. I worked on Slack. So I remember doing their first audit and Twilio and Square and many more public and, and private tech companies. So, you know, really, really good names, really big exposure. I was very lucky actually. I was a member of the audit team that worked on, one of the largest IPOs. [00:05:18] **Katie:** of that particular year and that was, that was the Twilio IPO. So, as a manager at the time with KPMG there and that was really my first intimate experience, into the, the world of, of the IPO process and really learned, how to, the sausages made, as you could say, from, from the paper cuts, from the multiple turns of their S1 to, 24 hour shifts at the printers, you know, bringing along your, your toothbrush and your toothpaste. [00:05:42] **Katie:** it was, it was a wild ride, but, you know, talk about major pivotal moments in my career. It was really an eye opener. I really knew from, Sitting across the table looking at the clients going through their IPO that I, I wanted to be on the other side of the table, you know, I wanted to see on their side, I wanted to be in the trenches at a hyper growth startup and, you know, carve that path to public from the inside, as opposed to just looking in from the outside. [00:06:06] **Katie:** So in 2017, I made the jump from public accounting into the land of startups and I took a controller role at what turned out to be a pretty successful on demand video streaming app. So, you know, your combination of both platform tech and ad tech. [00:06:25] **Erik:** it would be [00:06:26] **Katie:** Being the company's first accounting hire, I did, you know, absolutely everything at first, from payroll to cap table management to, you know, owning elements of HR, you know, everything that was thrown at me, I had to take, there was just no other option. [00:06:38] **Katie:** There was, there was no one else to do it. So really, it was the deep end from, from the get go. [00:06:43] **Erik:** from, from that, though, [00:06:44] **Katie:** But, you know, this meant that I had no choice but to get to know the operational side of the accounting, fast and in depth and implemented NetSuite and built out a scalable, you know, all scalable processes that it need. [00:06:55] **Katie:** I hired a team and eventually got the company to a pretty good place where they were, eventually acquired, through quite a successful acquisition. God, after that, I, I, I went to work at what was at the time a very [00:07:08] **Erik:** And he, mentioned [00:07:09] **Katie:** Food tech startup, and,I joined the company as, once again, their first controller, first accounting hire at an interesting time when they were trying to lock down a pretty substantial, funding round. [00:07:20] **Katie:** So I would have participated in the,the closing of that round and, you know, working with investors through the diligence process, whatever it was, and we're talking very, very early on in the, in the financials and audit or financials and accounting stage. Really, there was no concept of cleaned books or anything like that. [00:07:36] **Katie:** So it was quite fresh, quite early. So we, we. We did quite well in raising funds and short of such large funds in a short amount of time. I was their first accounting hire, as I said, again, so, you know, another significant building opportunity for me there. fast forward a couple of months, we, we raised, I think, the, the largest series C round in Silicon Valley that year. [00:07:56] **Katie:** And I had staffed a team and we completed our first ever audit with the big four, you know, zero misstatements, which, you know, Maybe some people don't appreciate, but between you and I and the fellow, yeah, between you and I and the fellow accounting leaders on the, on the call, having your very first audit with a big 4 and really 6 months into the job. [00:08:17] **Katie:** It's, it's, it's a pretty big achievement. a massive team effort. So, yeah. So that was, that was really great experience there in sort of such a short amount of time. eventually the company anyway, decided to pivot away from the tech that I had initially joined, to, to dive into. And they started focusing on manufacturing. [00:08:35] **Katie:** So I decided to actually make a move and, and move on from the company. But, in the last few months of, of working there, Like most accounting leaders out there, I was getting hit up a lot by recruiters, by CFOs, by other founders or founders of companies. and at the time there was an incredible amount for, for chief accounting officers, for CEOs, for controllers. [00:08:57] **Katie:** the market was really hot. so I kind of took a step back and I said, wow, like, you know, I'm getting hit up a lot. my LinkedIn is really, really blowing up here. what can I do to capitalize on it? On this demand, let's just say, so I actually decided to go out on my own. at that point, I formed a company called Hire. [00:09:15] **Katie:** And, this was both a consulting company, that focused on scaling accounting operations, but also had a recruiting component. So, a little mix of both worlds. Clients would engage us from, from when they were serious about, you know, getting their books in order and maybe preparing for their big first, first audit with a big four or maybe going towards a SPAC they were hot at the time, or something along those lines. [00:09:37] **Katie:** So, We were also engaged to do product development, or input on product development, so acting as, you know, product experts for finance tools in the making, which was super cool and, and different from the regular day to day, of debits and credits that was, you know, advising people. Software engineers on how a UI should look for their finance tool or, you know, what we would think, you know, as guinea pigs, what we would think about processes and data flow through their tools. [00:10:04] **Katie:** So that was really interesting and engaging for, for the team, to work on. And once again, outside that normal day to day of, of the debits and credits, [00:10:12] **Erik:** day episode credits. [00:10:13] **Katie:** But yeah, it was, it was a great experience, running my own company, you know, building a team, being that, that entrepreneur that, that, you know, I had, I think [00:10:23] **Erik:** And you still run the company, right? [00:10:24] **Erik:** Like I, so, so for our audience, the spelling of hire is H Y R E. Is that right? [00:10:29] **Katie:** Yeah. Not to be confused with fire as in fire fest, which is the joke I hear often. So yeah, it's, it's H Y R E. So, yes, it's still active. yes, I've had to step away, because of my, my current role, which we'll get into in a minute, but, yeah, I, I get, I get hit up, a bit to, to help out on, on some smaller projects and I also have a team that I can outsource to, so it's very much still active, it's, [00:10:52] **Erik:** I like that synergy actually, because you're still in the role in industry. You can kind of go back to that company if you need [00:10:58] **Katie:** Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. as I said, my touch is very limited. the last, you know, two years or so, or three years, I suppose. but yeah, it's very, very much still active. [00:11:08] **Erik:** the audience. [00:11:09] **Katie:** And it's just exciting to have on the side, but, it was a great experience working for myself. I, I, I, I really enjoyed it. that entrepreneurial side and, you know, from everything like working with lawyers to draft legal documents to set the company up or, you know, leading the sales and, and, strategy efforts. [00:11:25] **Erik:** to [00:11:26] **Katie:** I remember at the time saying, you know, there's no goddamn way I'll go back to full time employment. This is, this is the life. but look at me now, three years later, actually three years today. I, I'm at Fivetran, I, I, I, yeah, I, I, I, the opportunity came along and I, I suppose I got familiar with the company. [00:11:45] **Katie:** I met with the founders. I, Got a peek into their financials, the gross margins, et cetera, et cetera. And really I couldn't say no to, to the role, at Fivetran. [00:11:55] **Erik:** You joined industry, it was 2017, as I recall, you just said, I, I was at Pricewaterhouse for 11 years in client service and audit. And I did it for 11 years across the New York and San Francisco, practices. and I joined late in my accounting career, a lot, you know, I, and then I have a lot of folks that I've hired from big four. [00:12:15] **Erik:** They've all joined. Ranging from two years in all the way to 10 years in, you know, I hear different advice and recommendations on if you are looking for a career in industry and you're currently in an accounting firm, like what's the right year to go. You know, I'm curious about your point of view because you left kind of, I, you know, I, I don't, I can't recall exactly how many years you spent at KPMG before moving into industry. [00:12:40] **Erik:** But then you also hire or recruit in, in, in your role at this company you founded. And so if you could tell the audience, like how to think about that, if they're in the accountant's shoes and they're looking to jump from, call it a big four company into industry, how would you talk them through it? All the different considerations. [00:13:01] **Katie:** I would say it depends on what they want to do. Right? I knew that I wanted to be a controller because I used to work very closely with the controllers at the client companies, and I said, wow, this looks like a great gig. you have a say on, on, on the strategy, you have a say on how you're building the org, you get to work with a C suite, you get that exposure. [00:13:20] **Katie:** so that was what attracted me. so I stayed until, you know, I think I was two years in as a manager before jumping ship, and I'm, I'm grateful for, for sticking it out that long, gaining that, that exposure at that manager level and, you know, building, leading teams, designing the audits, whatever it is, and, Once again, increased exposure with the C suites of the clients, right? [00:13:42] **Erik:** that's not the [00:13:43] **Katie:** Further seeing how that sausage is made. So I knew for me that was the right move. Stay as long as I can, [00:13:49] **Erik:** it, it came [00:13:50] **Katie:** get that management experience and then jump ship. [00:13:54] **Katie:** but in general, do I think it's easier to come to, to stay longer at a, a public accounting firm if you want to achieve, you know, that manager level, director level? I, I do, right? But it's not impossible to come in at an earlier stage and build your way up. If you're a hard worker, you know, you have, you know, a great load of common sense, you're a good communicator, and you take a real interest, [00:14:16] **Erik:** a couple [00:14:16] **Katie:** I think it's easy to prove yourself, in industry as well. [00:14:20] **Katie:** Also, you know, you know, look, look at who your boss is as well. I'd say, you know, if you're, if you're coming out of a big four, big 10 or whatever it is, really pick and choose who you're going to be working for wisely. It makes a ton of difference. you know, I remember having great supporters coming out of industry, sorry, coming out of big four industry, who really encouraged me to, to They didn't even know what accounting was. [00:14:41] **Katie:** These are, you know, folks are, who are on the finance side and, it was a great motivator, a great, encouragement. [00:14:47] **Erik:** I really appreciate what you just said about identifying who you're working with, because that applies not just in the industry job that you might be going at, but actually what you're already working with while you're at a firm. Like your team is so important. The partner you're working with is so important. [00:15:05] **Erik:** And so if you can get a similar kind of growth experience and training experience going into industry, you're totally right. You can still make controller leaving a big four after year three or year four, and then, learning the ropes, at, at, at an industry, right? Totally. So, so that, that's really what it's all about at the end of the day. [00:15:23] **Erik:** I think the right training environment, the right learning environment, for you to get to where you want to go to. And to your point. I agree. Not everyone wants to be a controller, although a lot do. I mean, I, you know, that's kind of what I see. tell me about, like your current team. What, what are the current functions on your team? [00:15:40] **Erik:** my team is structured like a typical team. Okay. so, you know, in my, in my experience, I'd say the big four and over the last few years, I, I would think of it as a, as a typical structure. So what I do is I oversee all accounting, obviously. I oversee the tax, procurement, and payroll. So, next. I'm [00:15:58] **Katie:** Within that, there's, as I said, what, 30, 30 people in a team. [00:16:02] **Katie:** Some of us are outsourced or some of the team are outsourced. We work with a team over in the Philippines who are amazing and wonderful and support us in having a 24 hour accounting team. but, so yeah, we, we, we run the typical activities that you would expect. and I, myself in my role would partner heavily with the likes of FP& A, Revenue Legal and other departments to, you know, drive strategy and solve operations, Operational issues across the org. [00:16:25] **Katie:** so, there are main roles and responsibilities. other ways to building a high performance team. well, you know, that's. That's, that's our goal really, right? And I'll tell you, it's, it's not easy. it takes a lot of effort to do something like that. but, you know, as the saying goes, you're only as strong as the team that supports you. [00:16:42] **Katie:** And I, I truly believe that. I've been lucky to have the opportunity of, you know, the first controller, first accounting hire, multiple times over now. So really starting it, as, as I see, the strategy, and not having to inherit others and clean up their mess. So, What I would advise people who are kind of starting out and maybe that first controller, first accounting hire is, Set a plan, right? [00:17:03] **Katie:** Come up with a strategy. And every company is going to be different, right? So you could be coming into a company that's very early stage, maybe pre revenue. Don't go out and hire a technical revenue accountant, right? It's just not necessary at that point in time. I think one of my key hires to start off is generally going to be a payroll expert because that's a process that I don't particularly love running. [00:17:23] **Katie:** I have in the past, but I would not consider myself a payroll expert. so, you know, offloading something like that to someone who really, truly knows what they're doing and enjoys it is, is definitely one of the first tips, and, and hires I would make in building a team out, et cetera, et cetera. [00:17:40] **Katie:** Continue to work with your company, understand the strategy, understand where the gaps are, and think about your hiring plan as it relates to those. When we talk about high performance, [00:17:51] **Erik:** recommendations, and, [00:17:52] **Erik:** that's a great, it's a great topic to chat about. So, capable [00:17:55] **Katie:** I think building a high performance team starts with expectations. [00:17:58] **Katie:** At Fivetran, we're very clear up front when we're hiring, that we are, that we are a high performance accounting team, right? That we do have high expectations, that we do set the bar quite high. And why not? You know, there's a good market of accounting folks out there, whether in big four or at industry presently. [00:18:19] **Katie:** And why not attract the best by setting these, these high standards, right? like my goal is to have, umFivetran a summer. like Amazon, you know, people that it spits out are, are of high quality. And, when I, when I, you know, work with people who've been at Amazon, you know, they have their, the way that they approach their memos, the way that they structure their meetings. [00:18:38] **Katie:** So I, I kind of want Fivetran to be like that as well,as it relates to the accounting org. So, so we do set the bar pretty high. once again, setting your expectations, be clear and concise in, in, And the goals of the org, and, and really what you want out of each of the employees. [00:18:53] **Erik:** Right. You set the expectations, super high bar, everyone's overperforming versus the average or median in industry. [00:18:59] **Erik:** Let's say those people tend to want to get promoted, but they want to hire salary or they won't, they'll move on. Right. They, they, if you hire ambitious people, sometimes that your company, you're not growing potentially company wide as fast as this person's ambitions. So, so is that like, how do you, how do you balance that? [00:19:19] **Katie:** Oh, it's a, it's a real challenge, right? And I joke and I say that, you know, retaining top talent is one of my stressors. And what a, what a lovely problem to have, huh? my, my ethos, is, you know, Give them what they want to the extent that it's reasonable, okay? at Fivetran we pay for performance. I, I think it's important to reward people, who are talented. [00:19:42] **Katie:** and, and hold on to them to, to the extent that you can. So, we go through what, what you guys probably do at Brex. and we're currently going through at the moment are, you know, performance reviews where you, you rate, your, your direct report and your team and you provide 360 feedback, et cetera. [00:19:57] **Katie:** It's a very daunting process. So I don't think anyone loves it. but it's really critical, it's really important. but there's no better pleasure than, you know, working with the HR Ops team working with the Compensation Team and saying, how can we get this person to X, you know, midpoint or Q3 within their compensation ranges, because they truly are an exceptional performer. [00:20:15] **Katie:** so, Not everyone cares about the money, Eric, though, you know, it's important, it's up there. I think my mom used to say, you know, it's not all that, it's not all that important, but it's up there with oxygen. And so, yes, we, we definitely compensate well, when I make sure to, to, to push to the extent that I can with, with my HR and compensation teams. [00:20:33] **Katie:** But, it's not all about that. Right. I, I, I see high performance as launching exposure, right? So, why not include folks like that in, in meetings that you're attending with the CRO or maybe, you know, sitting in, in a meeting with the CEO, really giving them the exposure, you know, this is X person. I want them to attend today because, you know, they're one of my key players and I really want them to, to understand, you know, how, how, the ins and outs of the business or get them involved in X, Y, and Z. [00:21:00] **Katie:** It's something so simple,but, but really, Really attractive thing for, for these high performers. encouragement goes a long way, right? Tell people they're awesome, you know, words of affirmation and all that. I have one on ones with, with my direct reports every week. I have a, a standup meeting at 9am on a Monday morning, every, every Monday with my, my manager group. [00:21:20] **Katie:** But, you know, a lot of that focuses on the wins from the prior week, the that we're currently, [00:21:24] **Erik:** little bit of information. do I promote people? What's your [00:21:27] **Katie:** So it's really good to celebrate and really important to celebrate, you know, the, the wins, and the achievements of the team, along the way. So it's not all about the money, right? Do I promote people? Absolutely. you can't promote everyone going back to your original question. You know, that's, that's something that you have to figure out. [00:21:42] **Katie:** But once again, building a high performance team starts with a plan, starts with a strategy. You can't just have a, a top heavy, all, everyone being a director. It just doesn't work like that. But if people are hungry, you have to carve out the path for them to get there. You have to create the space, if you want to retain them. [00:21:58] **Katie:** So it's, it's challenging. I will [00:22:00] **Erik:** Yeah, I kind of have a, have a two prong philosophy on this and it aligns up exactly with what you said, which is compensation is important. but having the right learning environment, I think is the more important piece to it, because if you're growing and you're learning, the money will come because you're building your skillset, you're becoming More of a value contributor broadly at wherever you're working. [00:22:23] **Erik:** and so that gets recognized and money will come assuming the company does the right thing. I think the other side to it is if, if that's what I promote, at least this is my experience and what I've lived. And then also I think what I've been able to create at Brex and the accounting team specifically, but like when it's, when it ends up happening is sometimes there's just no business case for a promotion or sometimes, et cetera. [00:22:46] **Erik:** Right. And. I have to be okay with you moving on to somewhere else, or I will find somewhere else in the company for you to use your newfound skills at and deliver more value. So, you know, I've had a lot of folks in the team move over, yes, to the finance side of the house, but also some folks moved into product. [00:23:06] **Erik:** Some folks moved into credit policy. And, and I'm, I'm happy for them because they've moved on and they can leverage their accounting skills and other skills they've learned for other things in business and you know what, I'll bring the next a player into the team and I just keep it going and, and I think that's also benefits the team because it brings some freshness [00:23:27] **Katie:** absolutely. [00:23:28] **Erik:** Yeah. So, you know, I, I, I agree with your sentiments there overall. [00:23:32] **Katie:** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's always sad seeing, seeing top performers move on, but you know, we remain their number one fans and you can only encourage them to go on and do bigger and better things if that's what they want to do. [00:23:43] **Erik:** so you were on an engagement. To bring a company public. I think right before you went into industry, I think you have a lot of experience in those kinds of capital markets, transactions, you know, what, what are you seeing in terms of the IPO landscape for the rest of this year? I don't know if you have any project predictions. [00:24:00] **Erik:** I'm curious if you have anything to say about Fivetran, you don't have to say anything, of course. [00:24:04] **Katie:** I'll say something if you say something about Brax. No, I'm kidding. Okay. [00:24:09] **Erik:** which is wait for two years. Every time someone asks me three years ago, I was like, Oh, give me two years. And then now it's still give me two years. So, [00:24:16] **Katie:** yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, look, preface, I'm saying nothing, because, you know, I don't know what the future holds. getting back to your original question of what do I predict? Like, let me get out my crystal ball. I, I, I chat to folks over in, in the big force who lead the, the IPO services, and, you know, They don't know either really, right? [00:24:37] **Katie:** They can only say the little pockets of movement that they're seeing at the moment. But, you know, if I was a gambler, would I put some money on the market maybe opening up towards the end of this year? Maybe, you know, I would like to see that. I, I, I enjoy seeing companies go, go public and reading their S1s and, you know, seeing what's out there and their performance. [00:25:00] **Katie:** And, there's a good energy about, about the IPO market, but yeah, certainly dead at the moment, as we [00:25:06] **Erik:** Yeah. [00:25:06] **Katie:** few years. [00:25:09] **Erik:** You know, here's the other thing, like it's exciting for that one company, but we need those things out there for the betterment of our particular like industry and tech, [00:25:17] **Katie:** Oh yeah, [00:25:17] **Erik:** because if, if there's no IPO market, And then MNA keeps getting kind of like killed for regulatory reasons. [00:25:25] **Katie:** Absolutely. Yeah. [00:25:26] **Erik:** There's no exit anymore. [00:25:28] **Erik:** And then, you know, these funds that invest in our companies, they have a 10 year window and if there's no exit at the end, you know, I don't know what happens to that, that money. Right. Like it's, so it's definitely something that I think needs to get started up again, hopefully by the end of the year, as you're saying so, so pivoting a little bit, okay, it's, it's, it's a tangent, but. Right. End of the year, maybe IPO market gets going. Maybe there's more IPOs to come in the next year, but there's all this uncertainty. And so when you're in that kind of landscape, Like, like when does a company start thinking about being IPO ready and doing all the pre IPO work to go public? Like if you're always thinking it's two years out, are you kind of wasting time a little bit because you don't need it actually, because it's always two years out, always two years out, year after year, you know what I mean? [00:26:15] **Erik:** Like, cause it's a pretty, it's a pretty big uplift. I, I I've gone through it at Brex. It's, it's pretty big. Yeah. [00:26:20] **Katie:** I'm going to say to you that, you should always be thinking about it, but you have to find that fine balance between overdoing it and exhausting people with the topic versus getting your house in order. Where you know that if the company is to ever pull that trigger, that accounting is not going to be the blocker. [00:26:40] **Katie:** And I think I've heard you say that on a prior podcast. It's, it's, it's our biggest fear really as accounting leaders that, and I've seen it, I've seen in companies when I was an auditor and you know, they, the accounting team has been the reason that the timeline has been pushed out and it's, it's mortifying. [00:26:55] **Erik:** you, you just don't want that. Like there's some things that you can't predict, some things you can't control. Maybe there's a misstatement that pops up, whatever it is. good stuff. The one thing, [00:27:04] **Katie:** Those things can happen, but really it's our responsibility to prevent that. So to answer your question, when does it all start? I think from the get go, right? [00:27:12] **Katie:** And what I mean by that is that a lot of companies will either get acquired or they'll go public. So there's going to be some sort of a, of an exit or a transaction where you're going to be scrutinized for the work that you're doing on the accounting side, right? So getting your house in order from the get go is really important. [00:27:29] **Katie:** And what that means is, [00:27:30] **Erik:** example or, or an area that you particularly like, what's your top three, top three areas to focus on in this lens? It's not going overboard, like, but you get a lot of value out of it because. You know, there's this potential transaction or any kind of scrutiny that could come down the pipe. [00:27:45] **Katie:** Yeah, like, when you ask me that question I think of what we do here at Fivetran, we have this overall, Goal, let's just say it, our North Star of achieving operational excellence, right? We've had that since day one. So what does that really mean? to us, at the moment, it's delivering complete, accurate, timely financial data, okay? [00:28:04] **Katie:** It goes without saying, you're an accounting team, that's the core of it all. Is your data accurate and is it delivered timely so that actually It can be used by the FP& A or the company to make strategic decisions, right? So that's pillar number one. Pillar number two is eliminating process and control inefficiencies, right? [00:28:19] **Katie:** Particularly across key areas as it starts. So revenue, of course, right? You're, you're, you're top line. You don't want errors in that. so from the get go, you're working with, with teams outside of accounting to make sure that, you know, the sales orders that are coming through via NetSuite or the new contracts being spun up are, are, [00:28:37] **Katie:** are, I suppose, digested quickly by your team so we can recognize revenue and, appropriately and give some feedback to the org, the org going forward and work with FP& A and AR, whatever it is. So, you know, as I said, pillar number two is eliminating process and control inefficiencies. And then number three is, is building a high performing product. [00:28:53] **Katie:** Best in class accounting team, right? Bringing the right people on board, getting them ramped up, getting them familiar with the, with the company. And once again, setting that bar that I mentioned to you earlier. So, so those three pillars are really,are our guiding stars as you stay in Fivetran and everything comes from that. [00:29:11] **Katie:** Every quarter we set a, OKRs, so, objective and key results spanning from these three pillars. I, I don't know about you, but I often find in the goal setting process, at this company and prior companies, it's very hard for us to, take the, you know, the ELT or the overarching company goals, you know, grow our top line by 40 percent or grow our logos by, you know, several thousand. [00:29:34] **Katie:** It's very hard to connect the dots into accounting because we're not on the front line. So, you know, my, my job as a, as a leader is to say, okay, we're not being called out specifically in these overarching,objectives of the company, but this is what it means for us. If we give that reliable data, if we have those control efficiencies, and if we have a high performing team, look at the things that we're able to do, we're able to give them the, the accurate revenue numbers that will support that, that X percent growth this year or, you know, et cetera, et cetera. [00:30:02] **Katie:** So really my goal, goal setting, is, is really, An important feature for us. [00:30:07] **Erik:** I 100 percent agree with what you said on the OKR front, because it's the same here. We, you know, we have OKRs across the company related to the product, related to customer, value that we're delivering and, you know, it's not crystal clear just from looking at the OKRs as they're written, how accounting feeds into that, but then ultimately, if we don't have the right, right, accounting data, you can't measure how the whole company is doing against those goals. Right. And that's how I try to like hammer home, like the value of the work that our team is doing. And, and I think that at least at Brex, like there's a lot of recognition for that, how, you know, without the work that's being done, we, we can't measure the things that we want to do across the whole company. [00:30:51] **Erik:** so yeah, a hundred percent like that, like there, there is this foundational element to what we do in keeping the books and records. So that to your point, right. One of the first pillars that you did was delivering accurate and timely financial information. It's so that the executive team and all the management team can make the right strategic decisions at the right time and a timely basis. [00:31:14] **Erik:** Right. So, so, 100 percent in terms of like that value delivery against the OKRs and whatever your, whatever company you're operating at, [00:31:22] **Katie:** yeah, yeah. Going back to your question is, you know, what are you doing to, to, to start out on this path to public? you're going to need to do that when I, any, any talk of going public, right? I think you said in a previous podcast that you, or a previous episode that you guys are choosing the books in around four days. [00:31:37] **Katie:** You know, we're the same, so, you know, we're, we're doing 50 percent of our tasks before the month even ends, and then we're, we're wrapping things up really and closing out our recs the next few days and then, you know, Maybe day five, we are reporting at that point, the team reports to me and I have the numbers and we report to FP& A and away they go with our, with our numbers. [00:31:55] **Katie:** Like that's, outside of any talk on, on, on going public, that's really critical. That's our obligation is to hand over those, those timely and accurate numbers to the, to the org. but specifically going back to, to, to go in public then, one of the, the great things that we did,I think it's going back maybe a year or two now, was actually engaged some, some IPO specialists, right? [00:32:17] **Katie:** the external consulting firms. So, No matter how much I know about, the process, there's obviously a lot more to do than just the, the accounting org getting, up to scratch. So, we, we had a great, experience working with one of the big four, who came in and, and did essentially what's called a gap assessment. [00:32:34] **Katie:** they took a look at the main, processes and areas across the entire org and,And, you know, the deliverable in the end was, was, you know. [00:32:42] **Erik:** is supposed to [00:32:43] **Katie:** list, let's just say, and, we found that really useful for, you know, helping us target our focus over the, the next few months and, and years. So, I would advise anyone in our position, And I think you said you've done this, but to bring in the experts as well, and even if you don't have a timeline on an IPO, you know, we have no, no solid plans ourselves, I don't know about Brex, but, get going with stuff like that. [00:33:05] **Katie:** It's, it's, I don't think it's ever too early, you know, we don't want to be doing it series A, series B, but, even having in the back of your mind what your key gaps are can help you with those OKRs, help you with your strategy and where you need to focus going forward. So. [00:33:18] **Erik:** we, we, we did one of those back in 21, actually, and I thought the big value of that was, you know, at the end of the day, I had a, I think back then we had a pretty small accounting team still, it was like, like 12 folks, everyone's pretty busy just day to day getting the books closed, just like all the accounting operations that you can possibly imagine. [00:33:39] **Erik:** And for us to do that kind of work, like if we wanted to, and it's like, it's impossible, like I wouldn't be, we wouldn't have been able to find the time in the day and then to have a big four, like, like we did that to come in and give you a pretty comprehensive checklist. One, one, yes. It gives you the kind of like step by step for each, function on what it would take for you to be public company ready, but it also highlighted the things that we're already doing. [00:34:05] **Erik:** And that was also very comforting, frankly, for everyone [00:34:08] **Erik:** too. Like, we're kind of on the right track already. So, [00:34:11] **Katie:** yeah. It's great to be able to hand, something like that over to your board and to give them that comfort that, you know, we are on the right track, that we do have. Mm hmm. Our heads screwed on and we know what we're doing, so I, I remember that very proud moment, you know, and, we continue to talk to the board quarterly and give them updates on, on the addressing of, you know, such gaps or on the achievement of a, you know, zero misstatement audit or whatever it is just to, you know, keep the conversation open and to just give them, give them confidence in our team. [00:34:43] **Erik:** one more topic that I want to get into with you. so Brex, mainly serves domestic clients in the U S we are expanding globally with a lot of services. but you guys have been in the global realm, I think for a while, and maybe tell me a little bit more about how you manage global operations, from an accounting perspective at [00:35:02] **Katie:** Yeah, so, so what makes us global is that, like many companies, we have a fantastic R& D hub out over in India. which was established really, really early on actually. so we have several hundred people based over there, working predominantly within the engineering work. we also have some S& M presence, across Europe, so sales and marketing presence across Europe. [00:35:23] **Katie:** Our European hub is Dublin, Ireland, actually. So, yeah, we've been, we've been a global company from very early on. on top of that, we have presence in, in Australia it's a true global company. so that presents its challenges for sure, for an accounting org, right? [00:35:38] **Katie:** So the first things that come to mind when we think about that is,Where do we set up shop, right? should we go to Ireland? Should we go to England? Should we go to, maybe a non English speaking country? but you know, it's the, the topic of jurisdiction comes to mind. and it's not just for tax purposes. [00:35:52] **Katie:** That's obviously at the forefront of my mind, but, it's, it's everything from hiring, from talent, from,even the, the legal structures, you know, some, some, countries are definitely more employer friendly than others. So, you know, what I find I do. All the companies I've been at is really sitting down with the C suite, with the folks who are driving this strategy and sitting down with them and understanding what we need to get out of this, what are our intentions, what are our outcomes here, and making sure that we, they are clear on the, on the obstacles or the benefits of going into one jurisdiction versus another, right? [00:36:23] **Erik:** So, so [00:36:24] **Katie:** So, so that's something that comes to mind when, when, when thinking about going go global,more so from the accounting side, then how do we support the, the, let's just say the R& D team as they set up, set up shop or an S& M team as they set up shop in a new country. It's really, how do we get people employed, right? [00:36:40] **Katie:** Do we even want to start employing people directly or do we work with a local PEO, for example? do we have enough people to even, establish what's called Permanent establishment, right? Are we starting to get noticed by the government and having to actually set down, set down roots? [00:36:57] **Erik:** And what is permanent establishment and why does that matter? Just, just so our [00:37:00] **Katie:** Well, everyone wants a piece of the pie, right? [00:37:02] **Katie:** So, you know, government are going to want their cut, of the income that's being produced in their country, right? So, they're interested, in what activities you're, you're performing, as a company and, you know, the quantity of people that you have in the country. So, that's really the establishment or yeah. [00:37:19] **Katie:** Establishment of permanent, permanent [00:37:21] **Erik:** And basically I think, I think what it means is, you know, if a local jurisdiction or a government thinks that you've established or have permanent establishment. They want to tax you. [00:37:32] **Katie:** Exactly, they want [00:37:33] **Erik:** Oh, by the way, they want, they want some allocation of your overall corporate revenue to that jurisdiction. They want to use some formula that all like always results in some profit so that they can tax you basically. [00:37:45] **Erik:** Right. [00:37:46] **Katie:** Yeah. Yeah. This is where the fun really starts for you and I, I think. And this is where we get into, you know, transfer pricing and benchmarking and coming up with the percentages so that you really get a feel for the whole system. You're smart about how much, income is, left at the end of the day after, taking out all your payroll and other costs. [00:38:05] **Katie:** So, that, they're, they're fun projects that I get to work on as, you know, the leader of tax and we work with our consultants as well. That's how they work and every company or every country is different. so we've been. We've done multiple benchmarking analysis across, the world really, and we've come up with, with fancier pricing agreements to, to get us in those nice positions where, you know, we are obviously permanently established. [00:38:25] **Katie:** Maybe we have a sub there as well. but, we're, we're compliant, but not, you know, generating too much profit in one place. but, some other things as well that I, I want to bring up are, The acquisition of, of a company internationally. So, some folks listening may, come into being a global company through acquiring, a subsidiary or some sort of maybe, operations abroad. [00:38:47] **Katie:** this is something that we actually did,Fivetran, and it's all public information. We acquired a large company called HDR, who had a significant presence in the Netherlands and actually, a large, amount of IP, So, that was a very tricky situation, to, to, from a tax perspective, right? [00:39:00] **Katie:** You get into the, the complications of, of where the IP sits, and, how do you, who owns the IP at this point, where does it, where does it live? so we went down a, a pretty interesting, you know, call it tax restructuring, analysis, around IP, and essentially if you want to do it the, the quick and easy way, where you, you know. [00:39:18] **Katie:** Take the IP back to the US, you're going to get absolutely smashed with a [00:39:23] **Erik:** these tasks, you [00:39:24] **Katie:** tax bill on that. It's effectively seen as a sale transaction. And any gain on that sale is going to be taxed a bit, so that just doesn't make any sense. So, you have to get a little smart about things and,Maybe a sale, maybe bringing it back to the U. [00:39:37] **Katie:** S. Doesn't make any sense at all. So leaving it in that location, where it was originally developed, might be the, the best option and is likely the best option. So what does that mean going forward? [00:39:48] **Erik:** know this? Like, I'm [00:39:49] **Katie:** Who, who owns the development going forward? how do you How do you keep that local government happy too? [00:39:55] **Katie:** Going back to the pieces of the pie, how do you, how do you keep them satisfied from a tax obligation standpoint? but that, that's the real fun stuff. That's where I would highly recommend engaging the tax experts, like we did. but certainly as it relates to global, we, we've seen it all. [00:40:10] **Erik:** I just have one follow up question. [00:40:12] **Erik:** That's pretty complex, right? You're thinking about IP transfers, the tax ramifications of it. You know, when the executive team is thinking about this acquisition, they're not necessarily, they're thinking about the holistic forest from the trees value we're going to get from the acquisition. And then these are the technical things that they might think are minutiae. [00:40:29] **Erik:** Like, like what, what's your strategy for communicating these kinds of complex issues, to more senior folks who aren't in the tax or accounting profession? [00:40:38] **Katie:** I actually came out of a coaching meeting recently with one of my staff on this exact topic. and I've had some feedback myself from our own CEO, saying, Whoa, you're getting too detailed there. Can we, can we, can we, can we resurface there? This, this is a complicated,thing sometimes because those accountants get very excited, about, the intricacies of things like that, right? [00:40:59] **Katie:** Or of the numbers and of rev rec or whatever it is. but if you throw out 6 0 6 to someone who doesn't speak 6 0 6, you know, it's just glass eyes, over their head straight away. So, it, it's something you always have to keep in mind. But I enjoy this aspect, right? I enjoy breaking things down, simplifying, give examples, tell stories, whatever it is,and keep it in layman, in terminology. [00:41:24] **Katie:** but To be honest with you, if you want to be successful as an accountant, I think it's a, it's a, it's a skill you need to learn, right? you can't just live in a silo, over in the accounting department. these days we are completely cross functional. You're always partnering with other teams, who unfortunately don't care so much about what we're doing, even though it's so wildly interesting and exciting. [00:41:45] **Katie:** but, Yeah, I think that, that folks that struggle with that should definitely pay attention to, to how things are communicated, and, and really, make sure that they're developing that skill, [00:41:53] **Erik:** that they're [00:41:54] **Katie:** it's an important one. [00:41:55] **Erik:** scale. [00:41:55] **Erik:** Yeah. I try to use analogy. And sometimes it's very far fetched. So I've gotten feedback about that, but [00:42:02] **Katie:** Give me an example, give me an example of, of, give me an example, Eric, of what analogies you would use. [00:42:08] **Erik:** like, like, so a tax example, for, for instance, in a tax situation where you have a local government that wants to get a piece of the pie, I will equate that to, you know, you. [00:42:21] **Erik:** Let's say you're traveling or splitting time personally between two different jurisdictions, you know, if, if the local government caught wind that you were working there on a semi regular basis, they want to get some of your payroll taxes. You're doing work in their jurisdiction. You're taking advantage of the local services that they're providing, whether it's healthcare, whether it's whatever, police or, or other, other services. [00:42:44] **Erik:** And you're not paying any of your fair share, even though you're working in the jurisdiction. Right. And then like, that's for you as an individual, wouldn't it be the same for a company? [00:42:55] **Katie:** Yeah, exactly. That's [00:42:57] **Erik:** And I think those are the kinds I try to break it down like that. We're like, I actually use those examples a lot. [00:43:01] **Erik:** Like if this is a rule that they're applying to you. Why wouldn't they apply that to a company that's also trying to do the same thing? And, and, and that sometimes that works, I think, for the most part for, for a lot of folks. but sometimes I get really far fetched and I've already put my foot in my mouth and I'm like, Oh, well, now I got to double down, but [00:43:19] **Katie:** try explaining SSP to your CEO. that's, that's the real fun. stand, stand alone, obligations and, responsibilities. Valuing certain things. It can get pretty crazy, but yeah, once again, very important skill if you want to, actually communicate to, to non accounting folks. [00:43:35] **Erik:** We're about at time. And then we'd always end with a segment called controllers are fun too. And so I don't know if you you've had a chance to, but. We typically end off with a funny story, some kind of accounting debacle, maybe a joke to share with our listeners and just have a laugh about the profession. [00:43:55] **Erik:** Yeah. I like this part of the podcast for sure. And I'm not going to give you a one liner or tell you that it's in a cruel world out there. I mean, if that was it, that's [00:44:03] **Katie:** No, no, no, no, not going to do that. I have a quick funny story for you though, because I agree with you. We are fun. We are hilarious. Some of the funniest people I know are, are accountants, believe it or not. [00:44:13] **Katie:** But, I remember when I was a junior accountant, this is going way back to Ireland, and we were auditing, a property REIT, right? So they, they own multiple shopping malls around the country. And I, I myself and a fellow junior accountant were, you know, doing cash and didn't really know what we were doing. [00:44:29] **Katie:** But, The client who was X before the particular company that I was at, came up to us on a Friday and says, Do you want to have some fun? And we were like, yeah, let's go have some fun. You go, see that guy over there, that fellow, you know, junior accountant of yours, let's play a prank on him. And we were like, ha, ha, ha, that's very funny. [00:44:44] **Katie:** Let's do it. Okay. So, you may remember when you were auditing assets, You know, you may need to prove the existence of those assets, right? So what we did was we came up with a little plan where we would send this poor junior accountant out to one of the shopping malls with a digital camera, and a sign with the client's name on it, and say that in order to prove existence of The stores within the mall, you needed to get a photograph in front of every single store in that mall holding this sign, and you needed to ask the passerbys to take these photos. [00:45:18] **Katie:** So off he went, for what, 8 hours, into the shopping mall with the digital camera and the sign and asked all these passerbys to take photos. Came back at the end of the day. And, you know, safe to say we all had a bit of a giggle, at his expense. but, I remember, you know, it was funny for us, but, you know, I didn't feel so bad. [00:45:39] **Katie:** He was delighted with himself. He got eight hours of, you know, walking around a shopping mall doing no work. So I thought that was pretty funny. we all had a good laugh at the end of the day, proving the existence of these, of these stores. So [00:45:51] **Erik:** was a good sport. [00:45:52] **Katie:** was a good sport. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:45:55] **Erik:** Katie, thank you so much for joining the podcast today. I really enjoyed our conversation. [00:46:00] **Katie:** Me too. Thank you so much for having me on, Eric. ### Image ![Closed-loop-dark](https://brand.brex.com/transform/d2f2341f-92ea-4983-a67d-417a52921900/Closed-loop-dark) ### Content See what Brex can do for you. Learn how our spend platform can increase the strategic impact of your finance team and future-proof your company. [Contact sales](https://www.brex.com/sales) | [Open an account](https://www.brex.com/signup) ## Related Articles ### [Season 2 Episode 02](https://www.brex.com/resources/controllers-classified/season-2/episode-02) Brex’s CAO Erik Zhou is joined by Jack McCullough, President of the CFO Leadership Council, to discuss the evolving role of the CFO and the rise of the CAO role. ### [Season 2 Episode 06](https://www.brex.com/resources/controllers-classified/season-2/episode-06) Brex’s CAO Erik Zhou discusses best practices for building the accounting function out at a growth stage company with Desene Sterling, Controller at Sourcegraph. ### [Episode 11](https://www.brex.com/resources/controllers-classified/episode-11) Brex’s CAO Erik Zhou is joined by Eugene Spevakov, Treasurer and Head of Corporate FP&A at 6sense, for a discussion on cash and risk management. ### [Season 2 Episode 12](https://www.brex.com/resources/controllers-classified/season-2/episode-12) Brex’s CAO Erik Zhou sits down with Richie Mashiko, Fractional CFO, to cover tariffs, ad spend, pricing strategies, and profitability for e-commerce and CPG companies. ### [Episode 10](https://www.brex.com/resources/controllers-classified/episode-10) Brex’s CAO Erik Zhou is joined by Patrick Lynch, SVP and Controller of the Boston Celtics, to do a deep dive into the world of accounting and finance for sports teams. ### [Episode 03](https://www.brex.com/resources/controllers-classified/episode-03) Brex’s CAO Erik Zhou discusses how to build financial processes across regions and systems with guest Daniel Hilli, Head of Business Control at Alstom.